ASIC Regulation Thread - Regarding the proposed changes ( Australians effected the most )
I'm hopeless at formatting text, so if you think you can structure this post better take everything i write and put it into an easy to digest way. I'm just going to type out everything i know in text as fast as possible. I'm not a legal expert, I'm not somehow who understands every bit of information in the PDF's below, but i know I'm a retail trader that uses leverage to make profit which is why I'm posting this, in the hope that someone who can run a charge better than me, will. Some of you are already aware of what might be happening, this is just a post to educate retail traders on changes that might be coming to certain brokers. This effects Australian Customers the most, but also effects those living in other countries that use Australian brokers, such as Pepperstone and others. Last year in August 2019, ASIC ( Australian Securities and Investments Commission ) was concerned about retail traders going into Forex and Binary options without understanding these instruments properly and started sticking their noses in for tough regulation. ASIC asked brokers and anyone with interest in the industry to write to them and explain what should and should not change from the changes they proposed, some of the proposed changes are very misguided and come from a lack of understanding exactly how OTC derivatives actually work. I will provide the link to the paper further down so you can read it yourself and i will provide a link to all the submission made by all parties that sent submissions to ASIC, however the 2 main points of debate are: 1, To reduce the overall leverage available to retail traders to either 20:1 or 30:1. This means people who currently use leverage such as 100:1 to 500:1 and everything in between will be effected the most, even more so are those traders with relatively small accounts, meaning in order to get your foot in the door to trading you will need more capital for it to be viable. ^^ This point above is very important. 2, The removing of Binary options trading, which basically includes products like "Bet if gold will rise to this price in the next 30 seconds" This sort of stuff. So far from all the submissions from brokers and individuals nobody really cares if this changes as far as i know, though if you have concerns about this i would start voicing your disapproval. Though i would not waste your time here, all is pointing to this being eradicated completely with brokers also supporting the changes, I've never used such a product and know very little about them. ^^ This point above isn't very important and will probably be enforced in the future. Still to this day i see retail traders not understanding leverage, they think of it as "dangerous and scary", it's not, position size is the real danger, not leverage. So ASIC is aiming to limit retail traders access to high leverage, they are claiming it is a way to protect traders who don't really understand what they are getting into by attacking leverage and not the real problem which is position size relative to your capital. If it was truly about protecting retail traders from blowing up their accounts, they would look for ways to educate traders on "understanding position sizes and why it's important" rather than attacking leverage, but their goal is misguided or has an ulterior motive . I will give you a small example below. EXAMPLE - We will use 2 demo accounts for demonstration purposes. If you don't understand my example, i suggest you try it for yourself. - Skip if not interested in examples. Lets say we open 2 demo accounts with $1000 in both, one with 20:1 leverage and one with 500:1 leverage and we open an identical position on both accounts ( say a micro lot '0.01' on EURUSD ). You are safer on the 500:1 account as you don't need to put up as much margin as collateral as you would on the 20:1. If the trade we just opened goes against us and continues against us, the account with 20:1 leverage will run out of free margin a lot faster than the 500:1 account. In this simple example is shows you that leverage is not dangerous but safer and gives you a lot more breathing room. This trade was a small micro lot, so it would take hundreds of pips movements to get margin called and blow up that $1000 on each account. Lets now use a different position size to truly understand why retail traders blow up accounts and is the reason why trading can be dangerous. This time instead of opening a micro lot of '0.01' on our $1000 dollar demo accounts, lets open a position size much larger, 5 lots. Remember we only have $1000 and we are about to open a position much larger relative to our capital ( which we should never do because we can't afford to do that ) the 20:1 probably wont even let you place that trade if you don't have enough margin as collateral or if you could open the position you would have a very tiny amount of free margin left over, meaning a small pip movement against you will instantly blow up your $1000 account. On the 500:1 account you wouldn't need to put up as much margin as collateral with more free margin if the trade goes bad, but again a small movement could blow up your account. In this example, both accounts were dangerous because the lack of understanding position sizes, opening a position you can't afford to open. This is what the true danger is, not the leverage. Even in the second example, the higher leverage would "margin call" you out later. So i would go as far to say that lower leverage is more dangerous for you because it margin calls you out faster and just by having a lower leverage doesn't stop you from opening big positions that can blow you up in a 5 pip movement anymore, any leverage size is dangerous if you're opening positions you can't afford to open. This is also taking into consideration that no risk management is being used, with risk management higher leverage is even more powerful. ASIC believes lowering leverage will stop people opening positions that they can't afford. When the reality is no matter how much capital you have $500, $1000, $5000, $50,000, $500,000, $5,000,000. You don't open position sizes that will blow that capital up completely with small movements. The same thing can happen on a 20:1 or 500:1 account. Leverage is a tool, use it, if your on a lower leverage already such as 20:1, 30:1 it means your country has been regulated and you already have harder trading conditions. Just remember higher leverage allows you to open larger position sizes in total for the amount of money you own, but the issue is NOT that your using the higher leverage but because you are opening positions you can't afford, for what ever reason that is, the only fix for this is education and will not be fixed by simply lowing leverage, since you can just as easy blow up your account on low leverage just as fast or if not faster. So what is going on? There might ( get your tinfoil hats on ) be more that is involved here, deeper than you think, other agendas to try and stop small time retail traders from making money via OTC products, theories such as governments not wanting their citizens to be traders, rather would prefer you to get out there and work a 9 to 5 instead. Effective ways to do this would be making conditions harder with a much larger barrier of entry and the best way to increase the barrier of entry for retail traders is to limit leverage, lower leverage means you need to put up more money, less breathing room for trades, lower potential. They are limiting your upside potential and the downside stays the same, a blown account is a blow account. Think of leverage as a weapon, a person wielding a butchers knife can probably destroy a person wielding a steak knife, but both knifes can prove fatal. They want to make sure your holding the butter knife then tell you to butcher a cow with it. 30:1 leverage is still workable and can still be profitable, but not as profitable as 500:1 accounts. This is why they are allowing professionals to use high leverage, this gives them another edge over successful retail traders who will still be trying to butcher a cow with a butter knife, while they are slaying limbs off the cow with machetes. It's a way to hamstring you and keep you away rather than trying to "protect" you. The real danger is not leverage, they are barking up the wrong tree, how convenient to be barking up the very tree most retail traders don't fully understand ( leverage) , pass legislation to make trading conditions harder and at the same time push the narrative that trading is dangerous by making it even harder. A full circle strategy to make your trading conditions worse, so you don't succeed. Listen carefully especially if you trade with any of the brokers that have provided their submissions to ASIC. Brokers want to seem like they are on your side and so far some of the submissions ( i haven't read them all ) have brokers willing to drop their leverage down to 30:1 because they know by dropping the leverage down it will start margin calling out their clients at a much faster rate, causing more blown up accounts / abandoned accounts with residual margin called funds, but they also know that if they make trading environments too hard less people will trade or even worse move their funds elsewhere offshore to unregulated brokers that offer higher leverage. Right now it's all just a proposal, but as governments expand and continue to gain more control over it's citizens, it's just a matter of time till it's law, it's up to you to be vocal about it, let your broker know that if they drop their leverage, you're out, force them to fight for you. If you have any more information related to this, or have anything to add, post below. I'm not an expert at this technical law talk, i know that i do well with 500:1 leverage and turn profits with it, it would be harder for me to do on a lower leverage, this is the reason for my post. All related documents HERE CP-322 ( Consultation paper 322 ) & Submissions from brokers and others. https://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/find-a-document/consultation-papers/cp-322-product-intervention-otc-binary-options-and-cfds/
I have been reading all I can find on here and the internet for a good broker to start with and see the multitude of responses. I originally wanted to day trade stocks and made an account with TD Ameritrade but found that just didn't work with my work schedule. For the past couple months I've looked into forex. I had planned on funding my td account with the $2000 min after some more paper trading but see they won't allow accounts in Arizona which is where I plan to move soon. So now back to looking at brokers I've made a demo account with IG and plan to do the same with Oanda and Pepperstone. Can any of you give experiences as a US trader and preferably with a smaller account? I like that pepperstone has mt5 as an option and if u went with them would probably use that over mt4. I hate to learn mt4 if it will just be slowly phased out. What are your thoughts on all this?
Hello guys, as you may have noticed i am new here and to the trading world. I guess it has been over a month roughly and i drain information like a sponge, i have done babypips, read 3 books about strategies and mentality + risk management. Watched over 100 videos including webinars and lessons along with the youtube content. But i have questions which are pretty rare and cant find answers anywhere. I searched Forex and couldnt find any related stuff either. I am living in Turkey and the condition of Forex is different here. Leverage is limited to 10:1 and you need to deposit 50.000 turkish lira to the broker(lots of money). So i want to use a broker who is not supported by turkish state. Like pepperstone, i would appreciate recommendations. The real deal is this. Currently 7 turkish lira = 1 USD (rounded) and a 100 USD is an okay income a month for a turkish student (i dont expect to earn this at all, i am just trying to describe the situation that Turkey is in.) However guys i may start depositing with a small amount of 500 USD at most (at the beginning, every month i will deposit more). I want to risk %1 of my account each trade. And i trade mostly in 15m and 1h candles in my demo account and those show the most profitable results. But will i be able to earn despite the comissions and spreads? Which type of account you guys recommend. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.
Hi there. so first off a little background information, I am currently 16 years old and I got into forex trading about 6 to 7 months ago. I've spent the past few months doing the babypips course as well as taking online lessons to learn things such as harmonic patterns, support & resistance, using fibs and stuff like that. Along with this, I've been trading on a demo account with pepperstone to see what kinds of strategies work for me, which is mostly scalping as well as trading on the 15m tf. But here lies my problem. I want to move on to a live account, which, as recommended, obviously means I'm going to need a strategy. I've experimented and tried to find what works for me and I've understood very well what environment and timeframe I like to trade on, but I'm unsure how to form a strategy which I can follow and play by. I've tried multiple strategies such as the 3EMA(8,13,21) strategy on the 15m tf as well as strategies based on indicators, but nothing seems to work. Everything I try works for about 2 to 3 days, but eventually turns around really really fast. I was wondering if anyone could help me or give me tips on how to, or rather, the steps to building my own strategy. I decided to come here as I browse this subreddit a-lot and I've met and seen some of the nicest and most humble people here, hence coming here and not going to some baby pips forum. Any help is appreciated, thanks so much if anyone replies!!! EDIT : Hey guys so I have in fact gotten the advice I was seeking for, and like I mentioned below, I was practicing S/R over the weekend and tried planning ahead for this once, these are my profits for today with only half the knowledge as well as half the time due to school as well as no strategy. So I'd say pretty good returns on a 200$ demo account with 1:500 leverage who gets barely any time to trade....and is testing a strategy. Anyways, thank you so much to those who responded and helped out!!!!
Hello there, I am new to Forex ! I have studied much stuff these last days and I am starting to grasp the principles. I'm practicing it on a demo account too. I think I may go live really soon. I also like to compute the position size detailed in FAQ. For example, if I want to risk max $5 with a stop loss of 10 pips, I should put a position of 0.05 lots ==> 5000 units. This works well and has been confirmed by my tries on demo. I practiced a bit on eToro. But I read here it has a really bad reputation so I tried Pepperstone and I like it very much (the spreads are MUCH better, hehe, 3 pips is just insane). However, Pepperstone has a 1:500 leverage, where eToro had something like 1:30. Yet I fail to see the difference in my positions. This worries me... It seems that leverage should be taken into account in computing my risks, yet I can't see it... How should I look at this ? Thanks again for this amazing sub !
Oanda is considered by many on /forex to be the best broker. Apart from all the pros, its spreads are extremely high relative to other legitimate brokers. I used Myfxbook to compare spreads. The brokers I compared are from this list. I used EUUSD as the independent variable. Oanda: 8.6 FXCM: 0.4 Forex.com: 5.6 Pepperstone: 1.0 Darwinex: 0.9 IC Markets: 0.9 Exness: 3.1 RoboForex: 7.7 Oanda has the highest spreads. 21.5x FXCM's spreads! I opened a demo account in Oanda, but after comparing their spreads to other brokers, I will probably not open a live account with them. Other legitimate brokers have smaller spreads, why open an account with Oanda?
I'm an Australian living in china and have been trading on shenzhen and shanghai for about 5 years and have done well. I wanted a little more action since the market here is only open 4 hours a day so I thought I'd look into forex. I traded with a demo account the past six months and now want to open a real account. The issue is that every broker seems to be a disaster in one way or another if online reviews are to be believed. I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble since I've never had to deal with any issues whatsoever with my stock market broker. I would be opening an account with about $500 at first because from all the stories online I wouldn't be comfortable with more at first. But would ultimately like to trade with 40,000-80,000. I narrowed my choices down to fxcm, oanda and pepperstone. With a small account on fxcm and oanda you get dealing desk which is not ideal. But with a razor account on pepperstone you get ecm but people say you can get massive slippage sometimes. So I have to ask is it even worth the trouble? Is there any straight up legitimate brokers who do what they should make their money of spread and have no issues withdrawing etc?
Are demo accounts representative of the real thing?
Hey everyone, I have made a demo account at pepperstone just yesterday, and managed to turn $200 into 2.9k after making quite a lot of trades with 500x leverage. I am new to this, so I was kinda surprised at how easy it was making money on the demo account. I am aware that there's slippage for live accounts which can result in less earnings, but this seems to be too easy for me. Has anyone heard of brokerages 'cheating' in demo accounts to make you win money all the time so as to artificially boost your confidence? Or anything similar to that? Or is there something that I am potentially missing? Also, mind telling me more about the differences between a demo account and a real one? (Perhaps this is a trick of pepperstone's to trick me into believing that forex trading is easy?)
ECN. Used most by professional traders. Difficult platform for beginners
Minimum deposit $10000 (or $3,000 if under 25yo) * Well diversified -Oanda
Market maker. Second largest retail FX brokerage in the US. Easy platform for beginners.
No minimum deposit
Not well diversified, but well capitalized -Gain Capital (whitelabel forex.com) *Market Maker *Fair spreads *Minimum deposit $250 *Well diversified -FXCM Inc
ECN. Largest retail FX brokerage in the US
Minimum deposit $2000
Not well diversified. CAUTION: FXCM nearly went bankrupt in Jan-2015 due to a lack of diversification and low capitalisation. As a result FXCM LLC was bailed out with a large loan which may prove difficult to pay back. Be warned that their business may not be sustainable in the long term. -MBTrading
ECN. Mid-sized retail FX brokerage
Minimum deposit $400
International Only- -LMAX (whitelabel DarwinEx) *DMA broker based in the UK. Note that as a DMA broker LMAX eliminates the ability for LPs to last-look transactions. This may result in reduced liquidity during volatile times as liquidity providers would be likely not to risk posting liquidity to LMAX's pool. *Tight spreads *Minimum deposit $10,000 *Fairly well diversified -Dukascopy *ECN based in Switzerland, but available elsewhere depending on local regulations. *Tight spreads *Minimum deposit $100 *Fairly well diversified -IC Markets *ECN based in Australia *Fair spreads on standard account, tight spreads on professional accounts. *Minimum deposit $200 *Fairly well diversified -Pepperstone *ECN broker based in Australia. *Fair spreads on standard account, tight spreads on professional accounts. *Minimum deposit $200 *Not well diversified Software / Apps: Desktop/mobile
Apps are typically broker dependent. Some brokers have their own proprietary software, while others lease common software like Metatrader or NinjaTrader. Some software has a large development community for indicators and EAs.
Terminology/Acronyms: www.forexlive.com/ForexJargon - Common terms and acronyms FAQ: I need to exchange money, how do I do it? This isn’t what this sub is for. Your best bet is using your bank or an online exchange service. Be prepared to pay a hefty fee. I have money in one currency and need to exchange it into another sometime in the future, should I wait? Don’t ask us this. We speculate intraday in FX and shouldn’t be relied on to tell you what’s best for you. Exchange the money when you need it. I have an FX account, should I start trading demo or live? This is highly debatable. You should definitely demo trade until you have mastered how to use the trading platform on desktop and mobile. After that it’s up to you. Many think that the psychology of trading live vs demo trading is massively different. So it may pay to learn to trade live. Just be warned that most FX traders lose almost their entire first account so start with a low affordable balance. What’s money management? Money management is a form of risk management and is arguably the most important aspect of your trading when it comes to long term survival. You should always enter trades with a stop loss - the distance of the stop allows you to calculate how large of a percent of your account balance will be lost if your trade stops out. You can run a monte carlo simulation to figure out the risk of having a number of trades go against you in a row to drain your account. The general rule is that you should only risk losing 1-4% of your account per trade entered. More on this here: www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/06/fxmoneymgmt.asp www.swing-trade-stocks.com/money-management.html What about automated trading? Retail FX traders have been known to program “Expert Advisors” (EAs) to automate trading. It’s generally advisable to stay away from that until you’re very experienced. Never buy an EA from a developer because the vast majority of them are scams. What indicators are best? That’s up to you to test and find out. Many in this forum dislike oscillating indicators since they fail to capture the essence of what moves price. With experience you will discover what works best for you. In my experience indicators that are most popular with professional traders are those that provide trading “levels” such as pivot points, fibonacci, moving averages, trendlines, etc. What timeframe should I trade? Price action can vary in different timeframes. In longer term timeframes the price action and fundamentals are much more clear. Unfortunately it would take a very long time to figure out whether or not what you’re doing is successful on longer timeframes. In shorter timeframes you can often tell very quickly if what you’re doing is profitable. Unfortunately there’s a lot more “noise” on these levels which can prove deceptive for those trying to learn. Therefore the best bet is to use a multi-timeframe analysis, working from top-down to come up with trades. Should I trade using fundamental analysis (FA) of technical analysis (TA)? This is a long standing argument in these forums and elsewhere. I’ll settle it here - you should have an understanding of both. Yes there are traders who blindly ignore one of the other but a truly well rounded trader should understand and implement both into the analysis. The market is driven in the longer term through FA. But TA is necessary to give traders a place to enter and exit trades from a psychological risk/reward standpoint. I’ve heard trading Binary Options is an easy way to make money? The general advice is to stay away from binaries. The structure of binary options is so that when you lose the broker wins. This incentive has created a very scammy industry where there are few legitimate binary options brokers. In addition in order to be profitable in binaries you have to win 55-65% of the time. That’s a much higher premium over spot FX. Am I actually exchanging currencies? Yes and no. Your broker handles spot FX is currency pairs. Although they make an exchange at the settlement date they treat your position in your account as a virtual currency pair. Think of it like a contract where you can only buy or sell it as a pair. In this sense you are always long one currency while short another. You are merely speculating that one currency will appreciate or depreciate vs another. Why didn't my order fill? Even if price appears to cross over a line on your chart it does not guarantee a fill. Different charting platforms chart different prices - some chart the bid price, some the ask price and some the midpoint price. To fill a limit order price needs to cross your limit's price plus the spread at the time that it is crossing. If it does not equal or exceed the spread then it will not fill. Be wary that in general spreads are not fixed. So what may fill at one time may not at another.
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